#because that's the direction the character's going in

[zarstarss]

completely impartial to lab partner situationships

[hugintheraven]

So, in a fantasy setting with provably-real gods, you have:

What the gods say or do on the rare occasions they can be asked about something

Official church doctrine

Backstage church doctrine

What followers of the church actually believe

What secular authorities report about those same events

What forms of worship are allowed or encouraged

All of the above, repeated for each individual god, pantheon, splinter faction of heretics, cult of personality, cult of personality(minor demon edition), alternate form because of ancient enmity between those who worship the Volcano God and live on the north face vs those who worship the Volcano God and live on the south face, and people worshipping based on the poorly-translated Ancient Wisdom of the Cuniform Shopping List

Given all that, you can easily imagine how someone could know the gods are real and yet have some...odd...beliefs compared to the rest of their hamlet. Relationships with religion your character can have, a short list:

Major holidays only worshipper. Yes the gods exist and influence the world, so you show up to church because you're supposed to, but the absolute minimum times required because you usually have stuff to do on the rest day.

Anti-theist. The gods are real, they have measurable influence on the world, and they're also assholes who don't deserve worship. This is where your Reddit teen character ends up. Whether they have a point or not is up to you.

Believer in the gods but not the Church. Blessed X is real but the guy speaking in front of the crowd each week is just some dude and probably a politics-focused jerk. Again, whether the character has a point, and/or why the gods allow this to happen, is up to you.

Devout true believer. Fairly obvious, but you can have a lot of fun with taking this char and putting them in Situations, especially ones where their faith is pointing them in 3 different directions depending on what part of the Church matters most to them.

Person who thinks the Church has it wrong. ALSO a place for Reddit Teens. They've read the holy books, and the secular books, and the banned ravings of the Prophet Loony Lynne, and they're pretty sure the Church is full of it and the gods actually require X.

Member of a niche cult who is seeking converts

Member of a niche cult who is pretending to be ostentatiously devout so the church doesn't murder them

Member of a niche cult, running away

Non-worshipping quasi-believer. Think the average person's relationship with the Theory of Relativity, or an ancient Roman peasant who lived a continent away from the Roman Emperor. Yes, sure, their teachers taught them about the gods, and they believed the teachers, but also they have work to do and it's not like the gods are going to be showing up here affecting the stew so who cares?

Non-believer. The D&D equivalent of a flat-earther.

Formerly devout lapsed member. They used to be 100% down with the god AND the church, and then something happened, and now they refuse to acknowledge either without cursing.

Person with beliefs so odd no one can figure out if they're heresy or not. Blessed X is real, and the god of agriculture, and thus bans the eating of fish because fish aren't farmed, and will speak sometimes if you are on the brink of death so it's righteous to have your wife choke you every night until you lose consciousness in case Blessed X wants to talk to you.

Person who learned about the faith at age 5 and never updated any of their understanding of anything. Incredibly devout, but to a version of the faith that isn't actually practiced anywhere.

Person who acknowledges the gods are real, but refuses to worship because why would you worship some rando mage that happens to be powerful?

ETC. Take the pantheon(s) you developed, build a human system around them, then add 1000 years of internal politics, external politics, games of telephone with important beliefs, and lay worshippers who only moderately care. It's easy to end up with 50 ways of worshipping 5 gods and 50 more ways of worshipping other stuff that's just hanging around. And then each individual group is going to have the most insane person from your local Nextdoor participating in the discussion. Shake well, and you've got a lot of interesting stuff to dig into.

Tired of stories where the author worldbuilds a whole religion only to chicken out at the last moment by making the main character a skeptic. You mean to tell me that there’s all this richness in lore and culture, but you’ve trapped me with the one person in this society who doesn’t care about it? So bland. I could meet an agnostic easily enough by walking down the street, but your story is my one chance to hear the perspective of someone who follows whatever religion you’ve contrived. You made this whole world; convince me that your character really is from there.

[bunni-v1]

relating to your last ask that included arguments between shadow milk and his lover, i cannot get the following picture out of my head:

his doll, while a bit (a bit more) off-put by the whole truthless recluse situation, is very much "whatever, their soul jam, their business" about it

however-

what grinds their gears is the fact that kids (aka the gingerbrave gang) are involved

i can just imagine them going off on shadow milk like "listen, i get it, your plans but they are kids. literal children?? keep them out of this-" "no, doll, listen, they're scheming kids-"

ik this isn't really an ask, but i just wanted to share it :)) love your writing, you're amazing, and your shadow milk headcanons live rent free in my brain (actually i am paying them-)

Lolololol (Feel like a mysmes character typing ts... okay), I guess we can say this is ur rent. I'm happy for your payment though, it's good food for thought my love! Have a little midnight snack as a treat!

Just imagine you're someone who's more compassionate. It's something that Shadow Milk Cookie cherishes about you... when it's directed at him. You're always worrying over him and his little henchmen, Candy Apple especially since she's so young. It's annoying, but it's sweet how much you dote on them, and he can't say he dislikes the idea of you in a more parental role...

It becomes an issue when those little pests come around. You've never nosed your way into his business at all, leaving things between him and Pure Vanilla to be what they are. He prefers it like that, keeping you out of trouble was always a positive on his mind. Oh, but then those cute little annoying snotty nosed brats come along and ruin everything.

It wouldn't have been an issue if you hadn't overheard him threaten to drown them. It not like he was actually going to, he was just poking at Truthless Recluse, that's all. You didn't take it though, you were all kinds of pissed off at him.

He thinks it's a silly thing to be upset about, you know he didn't care enough about those kids to do much of anything to them. Yet, you remain upset, even after things are done and Compassionate Pure Vanilla has TEMPORARILY taken him and his plans down. It stumps him, he can't possibly wrap his mind around what's gotten into you. Such a small insignificant act is nothing compared to half of what you've seen him do.

When you refuse to say more than a few words to him, he starts to worry. What did he do wrong? Well, you told him, but why was it so bad this time? The best answers come from the source, of course, but getting it out of you might be a little harder than he likes.

"Doll? Dolly? Little star? Won't you talk to me?" He pouts, trailing behind you like a lost puppy.

You might've teased him if you weren't so upset now. You keep your nose upturned, doing your best not to crack under his relentless pressure. He could be so persistent about these things, and normally you would give, but he'd crossed a line this time. You didn't mess around with children, and he should've known better.

A drawn-out sigh comes from behind you, "Are you still upset about the drowning thing? It was all in good fun I promise! Nothing to worry your pretty little head over!"

He didn't know better, though. For the former fount of knowledge -- and someone who could literally read minds if he wanted to -- he was terribly unaware sometimes. It made you so angry, and you felt bad for being angry because he really didn't get it.

"They're just insignificant little kids, it's a silly thing to be angry about." He continues, and oh that gets a reaction out of you.

You turn around to face him, the boredom in his expression only making that anger bubble up more and more. You really can't hold it in anymore.

"Exactly, they're kids! Just kids, they don't have any stake in this. Why couldn't you let well enough alone for once!" You shout, and it feels so good to get out. Pettiness aside, you'd wanted to get it through his head since this all started.

You watch his face shift through surprise and annoyance and then flatten into an unreadable expression. It was unsettling to see, especially pointed in your direction. Still, you tried to stand your ground, though you'd never felt so small next to him. He lets the silence linger in a purposeful move, you're not sure why. It keeps you on edge the whole time, unable to tell what his next move might be.

"Dolly, they were in my way, I had no choice-" He starts, but you've had enough of the manipulation and sitting quietly.

"What threat are children to you?" Your voice breaks halfway through the sentence, tears you didn't realize were building pouring over your cheeks, "You are so frustrating sometimes. In what universe would I ever be alright with hurting children? Sometimes it's like you don't even know me!"

You don't realize he's in front of you until he's lifting your face in his hand with uncharacteristic gentleness. His face is still flat, but you see the worry shining behind his eyes.

"Y'know you shouldn't lie to the literal embodiment of deceit," He says quietly as he brushes your tears away.

You know you shouldn't, but you laugh a little at that, "I'm sorry. I'm just upset."

"No, really?"

"You don't get to joke around right now," you scoff with a halfhearted shove at his shoulder.

He hums, leaning into your vision so you have to look at him, "It's making you smile, though."

"Shadow Milk Cookie."

"Okay, okay. I get the message," He backs off, "Just don't cry anymore, please?"

You smile, "Maybe if you promise not to involve those kids more than you have to, please?"

He seems to think it over like it was a hard decision. He doesn't think much longer when you flatten a glare on him, "Alright, it's a promise! You can look at my fingers, they're not crossed either! I'll keep my word!"

You scoff at him, "What do I see in you?"

"My charm and wit, of course!" He puffs up like a proud cat, the usual grin back on his face.

"Just kiss it better you dummy!"

"Whatever you ask for, you shall receive, my little star!"

And kiss it better he does, until you can hardly remember why you were so mad at him to begin with.

[raven-at-the-writing-desk]

quick question- I was a bit confused in some dialogue during book 1 lol 😭😭 It’s during the later chapters when riddle has collared both ace and deuce after they’ve challenged him for his seat. More specifically, the part where yuu calls riddle out for his behavior (rightfully so) and he responds by insulting them and their parents I believe?

The confusion stems from aceyuu shippers (just wanted to clarify I’m not self shipping lmao) where they say ace ends up punching riddle because he’s explicitly defending yuu’s honor or whatever but i also see other people (non-shippers) who say ace punched riddle because he insulted ace and/or deuce’s parents? Im not quite sure which one it is and went back in the actual game to check but i feel like the wording of riddle’s insults is a bit vague? Idk, maybe im just being a bit of a dum dum and can’t properly comprehend the scene even though it’s quite simple. I feel like it’s also just because i see a lot of people saying different stuff and just wanted to hear your thoughts on it if that’s okay?

I just feel like you really understand both the story and characters in that regard haha

P.S. your posts r genuinely very informative and helpful especially for people like me who kinda have no media literacy (not in a negative way!!) pls keep up the good work you’re rlly great at it <333

Hmmm, I see 🤔

Before I get to responding to this question, I want to preface this with a few disclaimers! Firstly, I do not mean to invalidate or detract from Ace x Yuu shippers or anyone who may interpret their relationship as romantic. You should ship what you like and have fun doing it. My reply aims to be more objective, but that should NOT impede on your enjoyment or whatever it is you choose to ship. Secondly, for those who don’t ship Ace x Yuu, I will be discussing the pairing later on in this post, so please keep this in mind.

Let's first look at how the game and how it depicts the scene. This occurs in 1-22, shortly after Riddle collars Ace and Deuce in their duel for the dorm leader seat. With his victory secured, Riddle begins to gloat about how this is proof that he is "the most correct". At this point, Yuu/the player character is granted two dialogue options:

If you choose "But that's not right!", Riddle replies with, "I am the one who decides what is wrong and right! What sort of pitiful education have you received, that you cannot follow such simple rules?"

If you choose "You can't just use rules to do whatever you please!", then Riddle replies with, "If there were no penalties, no one would follow the rules. I have to wonder what sort of pitiful education left you unable to comprehend so simple a concept."

However, no matter which dialogue option you choose, Riddle continues on to say, "Clearly, you were born to parents with no great magical capability. And as a result... You lack even the basic education necessary to attend a school such as this. It's quite sad."

Deuce becomes upset after hearing this--but before he is able to act, Ace is already on his feet and manages to deck his dorm leader in the face.

Based on the fact that Riddle seems to react to something that Yuu says, the framing here implies that the "you" Riddle is using refers to them specifically. As you can see above, both Ace and Deuce take offense to what Riddle says, but it is Ace that acts preemptively and attacks Riddle for his rudeness. This is what Ace x Yuu shippers will point to as a defining moment in their relationship (though, to be clear, this scene can definitely also be interpreted as platonic!!).

… Buuut it’s not completely clear that Riddle is explicitly directing any and all insults towards Yuu and Yuu alone, even if Yuu was the one to prompt his tirade. Due to the visual novel style format of the game, we have limited assets to base our interpretations off of, so going by the game alone may not be entirely accurate to what is happening in this scene. For example, we don't know how the characters are oriented relative to one another. It's possible that Riddle responds to Yuu's dialogue and then turns away to berate Yuu, Ace, and Deuce for their stupidity, since all three of them are, in his eyes, rule-breakers. We simply cannot tell due to the constraints of a visual novel. Let’s consult the manga adaptation and see how that presents 1-22.

In the Episode of Heartslabyul, the framing of the panels centers Riddle and Adeuce; Yuuken is not involved whatsoever. (On a prior page, all Yuuken remarks on is how fast Riddle is able to cast his spell; Yuuken has no lines similar to game!Yuu’s earlierdialogue options.) Riddle stands imposing over his opponents and rants at Ace and Deuce about their lack of an education. You can see that it really strikes a nerve with Deuce (whom we learned used to be a delinquent prior to NRC). This still results in Yuu punching Riddle.

The manga seems to imply that Riddle is not insulting Yuu, but rather Adeuce. This makes sense to me, given that though all of them are rebels to Heartslabyul’s strict rules, Adeuce are the two who most directly challenge his authority.

You can see in a close-up panel that Deuce is gritting his teeth and trying to hold himself back from going at Riddle. The text in that panel involves the mention of parents who cannot use magic—which just so happens to be true of Deuce’s mother. The same mother that he worked so hard to make proud of, the mother he turned over a new leaf for. But again, it’s Ace that gets the hit in. Why is that?

Let’s check out our final source, the first volume of the light novel. On pages 319 and 320:

Riddle very clearly states “And as for you two.” This clearly refers to the fallen Ace and Deuce. He then unleashes his barrage of insults at them. Again, not at Yuu, but at Ace and Deuce. The text even goes on to remind us that Deuce would be especially rattled by Riddle’s words because of how he had come to NRC for the sake of his mom. In this version, we see our Yuu (Yuuya) being more involved by trying to keep Deuce from lashing out. Like in the game, however, Ace still gets in that punch on his dorm leader.

Okay, so… The game, manga, and light novels are different iterations of the same base story. Based on which you consume, you could walk away with an entirely different understanding of the scene in question. The game, being the most interactive medium with a self-insert main character, a gacha game which makes $$$ from endearing the characters to us, has the set-up which is most conducive for yumeshipping and thus making the player feel beloved and important in 1-22. This is obvious if you also consider that many fanservicey lines from other parts of the game (such as Ace wanting to sleep in Yuu’s room) being left out of the manga. It's also entirely possible that Riddle first reacts to what Yuu says, and THEN shifts his attention to address the group rather than just Yuu. The manga, with a more standoffish and level-headed Yuu, doesn’t speak up like game!Yuu does, so Riddle instead directly insults Ace and Deuce. The light novel, which features a timid and non-confrontational Yuu, is focused on deescalating the situation. And, like the manga, the light novel is NOT interactive and so it doesn’t need to concern itself with making the player feel special. Riddle isn’t mandated to acknowledge Yuu; he can instead be mad at Ace and Deuce all he likes.

If we were to combine information from across the game, manga, and light novel to decipher what is “truly” happening, here’s how I see it!

The light novel contains a scene exclusive to it on pages 176 and 177. As Ace is making himself comfortable at Ramshackle, he formally apologizes to Yuuya for being mean to him in the prologue. Ace explains that his meanness was because he thought that Yuuya had bullied his way to be admitted to NRC under special circumstances. “[…] the rest of us had to work our butts off to get in, and you just sorta walked in.” He proclaims that this was unfair, so it annoyed him.

This makes a lot of sense for Ace’s character. In book 7 of the main story, he expresses that he is insecure about being an ordinary mage and that he hadn’t even developed his UM yet. He calls himself lame and pathetic, someone who is always looking for an excuse to take the easy way out. This is in spite of the bravado he puts on and how he often brags about being better or smarter than Deuce (most notably in book 5). If we believe the light novel dialogue, Ace worked hard to get invited to NRC. He has pride in earning this, and he has something to prove while he is there. Recall that his older brother is an alumnus of the school, and that his own father is a magicless human. Ace canonically has a good relationship with both of these family members and often bonds with them through little things like card trick competitions. When Riddle insults Ace's background... he is also insulting Ace's brother and father. He is also insulting all the effort Ace put forth to get into NRC in the first place. Ace would of course lose it--especially when he has been the primary victim of Riddle's rage for most of book 1. He's the first to be collared, the one who had to apologize and attempted to make an apology tart (which got rejected). Bro's fed UP having to bend the knee to a tyrant and sick of watching everyone else do the same. The punch that comes out of it seems to me like the result of all Ace's pent-up frustrations, as well as his own fury at Riddle speaking ill of him and his family.

While Ace is unquestionably willing to ride or die for Yuu in books 4 (he takes a long public transit route from the Queendom to Sage's Island after receiving a SOS text from them) and 6 (he tries to protect his friends from Ferrymen)... I think book 1's a bit too early for him to be SO loyal to Yuu that he'd get this angry on their behalf and sock Riddle. (Book 1 takes place during the first week of school; Ace seems to have only known Yuu for a few days at this point + hasn't really hung out with them besides sleeping over at Ramshackle since he's not allowed back at Heartslabyul.) His punch definitely feels fueled by a bunch of other things rather than being extremely motivated to defend Yuu's honor. I think maybe a case could be made for the game specifically, since that's the only version where Yuu is potentially addressed rather than Ace and Deuce being addressed. However, this does take some extrapolation. You'd have to assume that Ace is actually very attached to Yuu this early on or pair it with the idea that Ace is sensitive about magicless humans in general being discriminated against because of his own father being magicless (ie Ace was insulted by proxy, even if Riddle might have aimed the comments at Yuu). Not sure if the latter argument holds up very well though, considering that Ace himself did discriminate against Yuu in the prologue because they lacked magic. Likewise, he doesn't get mad for Fellow and Gidel in Playful Land when they share about being looked down on for not being magically inclined. But hey, maybe that was just Ace being in denial and acting contrary in order to cope with his own complicated feelings on the topic. He’s been known to behave like this anyway, acting cocky despite having no UM and denying that Yuu would go home (even though we later find out he deeply does not wish for this to happen).

I definitely think that many of the game-exclusive lines and content are there as fanservice for the players, who are encouraged to project or to self-insert as Yuu. Ace in particular is one of the characters who gets a ton of this kind of yumejoshi bait-y stuff. Everyone has it to some extent, but Ace is one of the rare few who has several pretty overt instances in the main story (whereas most other characters have their fanservice content relegated to voice lines and maybe some events). On top of this scene (which could potentially read as "Ace defending Yuu's honor"), we have: multiple instances of Ace offering to share a room/bed with Yuu (once in book 1, again in book 3), he has shared his number with Yuu and invites them to call him if they "miss him", Ace's entire book 7 dream revolving around a reality in which Yuu is able to freely traverse between Twisted Wonderland and their original world (furthermore, he is the ONLY dreamer we have seen in which Yuu is involved in the dream), etc. Ace is also known to frequently tease Yuu, and, on top of having several voice lines inviting them to hang out, is actually shown hanging out with them and caring about them in various vignettes and events. For example, he has movie nights with Yuu (Idia's Labwear vignettes), asks for their opinion on whether or not he looks the part to woo the Ghost Bride, rides roller coasters with them in Playful Land while previously complaining that his ex-girlfriend wouldn’t, and worries for where Yuu might be (Endless Halloween Night). With this abundance of Ace and Yuu content, I can see why people that have the shipping goggles on--and even those who don't--might interpret early scenes as Ace acting out for Yuu's sake, be it romantically or platonically. More objectively speaking and when considering the manga + light novel though, I don't think I personally read 1-22 that way. I enjoy Ace as a character and I support Ace x Yuu shippers, but the evidence and context suggests that he's venting other frustrations to me.

Again though, this is just my interpretation. Feel free to use this information however you’d like and come to your own conclusion.

[hotvintagepoll]

LAST POLL OF ROUND 5

Harpo Marx (Night at the Opera, Night in Casablanca, Duck Soup)—While Groucho is better-known, Harpo's physical comedy is SECOND-TO-NONE. The man is a strange mime trapped in the paradigm of early 20th century movies. Every move is a symphony and simultaneously a colony of rats in a human skin suit. LISTEN. You MUST see this man in motion. Every still photo of him looks like a combination of a sad clown and a different, sadder clown, but it's only because he put so much joy in every motion.

Peter Falk (The Great Race, It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World)—JUST A SILLY MAN!! Sabotages four different cars (including his own, oopsie daisy) in the film The Great Race. Not film but TV, however, he is also known as the lovably silly little man Detective Columbo. Nobody knows what he's doing or where he's going at any time (even him).

This is round 5 of the contest. All other polls in this bracket can be found here. If you’re confused on what a scrungle is, or any of the rules of the contest, click here.

[additional submitted propaganda + scrungly videos under the cut]

Harpo Marx:

64.media.tumblr.com

He's like if a clown was a hobo was also somehow a classically trained harpist, his face is always in some kind of contorted silly shape, feral curly haired ninnymuggins always doing weird things to people

64.media.tumblr.com

Harpo is mute in all of the Marx Bros movies and so his body language and facial expressions are SO over the top but he's also got fewer braincells than a goldfish while often being the emotional heart of the Marx Bros and he's just A Guy!!

Every scene with Harpo Marx is a treat! Just like watching a seagull steal a stranger's hotdog at the beach, it is a joy to watch him frustrate the hell out of all the other films' characters! Harpo Marx is the zenith of unhinged in all of his appearances, making any other funny man a straight man by comparison. (A fantastic feat considering he starred in films with his brothers Grouch and Harpo, who sported a shoe polish mustache and questionable Italian accent, respectively). The scrungliness of the little guys he plays come from his guileless, wide-eyed expression, curly blond wig, and the extreme ability to annoy others, despite never saying a word. Is he malicious? Most definitely, but hard to tell because he has a dopey grin on his face most of the time. Communicating through other sounds like honking horns and whistling, he is a force of chaos in every Marx brothers film! Also an accomplished harp player, the beautiful calm moments where Harpo plays juxtapose the zany, making him all the more scrungly. His visual style of comedy is timeless; Duck Soup had me rolling with laughter as a six year old and is still just as funny today.

In my opinion Harpo is the funniest of the Marx brothers because he is so good at slapstick comedy. Since he never speaks in his film appearances his performances are very physical, which contributes a lot to his scrungliness. He was fully committed to being wacky at all times. All of his hilarity is based on him being weird.

He's just a weird little guy who causes chaos everywhere he goes, and then sits down and plays a beautiful harp solo! He steals the show from his very chatty brothers without saying a word, and was surprisingly ripped under that old raincoat

All of the Marx Brothers are Scrungly to a degree, but Harpo is the scrungliest! His outfits are so big he gets lost in them, his pockets are full of everything, and because he never speaks, he always uses physical comedy. Also he's an incredible musician.

Peter Falk:

He's a man who looks unshaven even when he's shaven. His soul is unshaven. The perpetual squint, the way his eyes don't always go in the same direction due to one being glass, the disheveled hair... I can only hope to look as scrungly as him someday.

Just look at him. Seriously. Just look at him. He's the scrungliest little guy. He out-scrungles them all.

[nikispade]

It’s been driving me F***king insane. It’s one thing to not like a show, it’s a completely other thing to say as person is a bad writer and should never be able to create something because YOU don’t like the direction of a story or a character.

At this point the personal insults that come out whenever some dislikes something just pisses me off. I don’t t know her or the teams with her but no one deserves to be spoken about like she is purely because she can’t make everyone happy.

If you don’t like the shows, go make your own.

If you gave personal beef, keep it personal.

You have to like it, or watch it, or even hear from the creators. Skip it and go find something to love.

I’m fine with critics, Love a good debate, I freaking adore solid criticism but when it gets to personal insults that’s not what it is anymore.

It’s not fun, it’s not intellectual, it’s just bullying

I've officially gotten someone trying to "call me out" for "defending VivziePop" on TikTok, people saying I'm a "VivziePop dickrider" and look I honestly to god do not see what I say as "defending" her, but fine, here's a defense

I think it's weird as fuck how people are so willing to say heinous things about a queer Latina woman the SECOND they find a target that's "acceptable." I think it's insane how people will dub her a pedophile and a zoophile, two of the worst things a person can be for, at worst, PG-13 art that is both ancient and taken SEVERELY out of context. I think the way people bend over backward to twist her words to have the worst meaning possible is bizarre

I won't be sorry for that. I DON'T have a personal opinion on VivziePop, I can't, she's a stranger, but I will never not see this behavior around her as 10x weirder than anything she's ever done. I think it's fucking gross how quickly the internet will turn on queer women the moment it has "permission."

I hate how uncritically it's done. I hate how blatant the double standard is compared to someone like Brandon Rodgers. It infuriates me, honestly. Some people out there should genuinely be ashamed for the behavior they express

TLDR: The worst thing a woman can be is successful and flawed

[stopaskingme]

The curious case of Adeyemi's (missing) watch in Conclave (2024)

the longer watch friend and I think on it, the more it blows our minds how intentional the costumers were wrt to the friggin watches in this movie. If you're interested in watch meta for Lawrence, Benitez, Bellini, Tremblay and Tedesco, I have linked the previous posts :D

This post is about Adeyemi's watch and what it means.

To do that, we've to highlight the different shorthands the watches have throughout the movie because despite like 100 close-ups of hands in Conclave, only six characters are depicted with watches.

Only the serious contenders for the papacy.

Before the conclave starts, watches are windows to a Character

they are quick snapshots of who a character is, or their current state of mind.

Tremblay and Tedesco: Watches with black dials, signalling their roles as antagonists;

Bellini and Lawrence: White dials. more on Bellini later.

Benitez: Digital watch face, neutral unknown

Two characters stand out because of how plainly the camera shows us their watches:

Benitez's Casio in his first full-profile shot, and

Lawrence's Orient in the emotionally vulnerable bathroom scene

– and then how completely those watches disappear once the conclave begins, which leads into the second role the watches play once the conclave begins.

x

Watches as Signals of Ambition

Because Benitez and Lawrence lack any desire to be pope, the watches are gone. Even in settings which you'd expect to see them, like the bedroom.

What's the point?

Well, Adeyemi's Watch.

We see glimpses of it when he was still in the running for the papacy.

But that's all we get. Glimpses. His watch cannot be identified.

It can't be an accident, since the movie has been so deliberate about who wears the watches.

Rather, the camera refuses more details on Adeyemi's watch because there's nothing more about him we needed to know.

He didn't need to prove himself. He was the 'natural' successor. He led the votes in the first three ballots. He's the closest thing to a shoo-in candidate.

When Lawrence comes to confront him, he is still wearing his watch. After Adeyemi realises he's lost his chance however, he's stripped of his watch by the next vote.

To hammer the point home, the camera shows us the individual candidates following the results of the next ballot.

Adeyemi sits with his hands tucked under the table.

Tremblay (as the new frontrunner) has a watch, but we don't get to see it fully

Bellini and Tedesco's watches are full-faced, out in the open. They are still actively chasing the papacy

Lawrence, on the other hand, genuinely doesn't want it, so his hands are firmly under the table.

Bellini

The same happens with Tremblay's watch when he's outed for simony. More interesting to note is the one time Bellini loses his watch; when Lawrence shares the report with him.

True, he was in his nightgown. It doesn't make sense for him to be wearing a watch. But he'd also given up on his own candidacy because he'd bought into the idea of a Tremblay papacy.

After Tremblay is out of the running, look who's wearing a watch again!

Lawrence

Most telling of all is Lawrence's watch. The only time it appears after the conclave begins is – you guessed it – WHEN HE VOTES FOR HIMSELF.

And Benitez?

Even during his game-changing monologue, his watch was hidden. We only see it after that in the final voting scene.

Benitez might not have wanted the papacy but he'd grasped the situation. He knew what direction he'd steer the Mother Church if he were elected. His watch is symbolic proof of his conviction and visual proof of his character.

In short, the watches show up when the candidates need to prove themselves worthy of being the next pope.

And they lose their watches when they are no longer eligible.

Going back to Adeyemi, when he realises he's lost his chance, Lawrence places his hand over Adeyemi's wrist when praying for him, covering where his watch would be.

Adeyemi's watch makes its last appearance when Tremblay is outed; his hope rearing its head. But he also realises he doesn't stand a viable chance.

When Benitez is elected, Adeyemi claps in resignation without a watch.

Tremblay's hands are beneath the table. The camera lingers only on the crack in his glasses.

Bellini's Seiko Dolce is there in its full tank face glory. He was never 'disqualified' from the race. Should there be another conclave in his lifetime, he might run again.

Tedesco's Oris out and in even fuller, naked display. He hadn't been 'disqualified' either. He could and would run if he's alive for the next conclave.

x

After the conclave

In the Room of Tears, Benitez holds Lawrence's hands. Benitez wears no watch. There's nothing more we need to know.

We already understand who he is and why he deserves to be Pope.

🐢 Conclave watches part 1 / part 2 / part 3

[lumina-649]

One of the cutest aspects about the direction of Yashiro's character in the newer chapters is how much she's openly simping for Hanako. We even get a glimpse into how Yashiro actually views him.

In the beginning, Yashiro was dead-set on only getting with the hottest of hot guys---the whole prince charming type. In fact, this is why she was obsessed with Teru for quite a bit.

But as of chapter you-know-who, there's very clearly a distinction between how the series/other people portray and see Hanako versus how Yashiro views him.

Throughout all the bullcrap these two go through, Yashiro realizes she can't keep her feelings buried anymore (though, I don't see why you would when you literally fight your way through this world's version of hell just to get to this dude, but I digress) and goes all in with acknowledging she wants nothing more than to be with Hanako.

Heck, even when her former crush, Nakahara was (creepily) hitting on her (actually, he was harassing her), she wanted nothing to do with him because Nakahara wasn't Hanako. It literally takes her a few seconds for her to even remember who he is because that's how insignificant he is in comparison to the one and only toilet ghost.

As she runs away from him due to his downright creeptitude (which ironically enough, smartly shows that he wouldn't have even made a good partner anyway so it was actually a good thing he rejected her), she reflects on how she DID want to confess to someone, but it wasn't to him---it was---say it with me: HANAKO--

And the best part from her reflecting on how she wanted to confess to him, it goes back to that part where he was with her in the stage where they'd be holding the performance for the Wizard of Oz. See how the series objectively portrays him versus how Yashiro sees him?

Yashiro is no longer concerned with any prince charming because in her eyes, Hanako IS exactly THAT. From what she originally saw as this snarky boy in a hat, she now sees him as the most handsome because of who he is and what they've both been through together.

He looks more attractive to her because of the fact she recognizes the bond she has with him and wants nothing more than to delve deeper into it.

As messy as these two are, I will say this: AidaIro are MASTERS at subtext and tugging my heart strings.

[williamaltman]

Saxon's feelings for Lochy

Ok, so, I've noticed that a lot of people don't seem to think Saxon has a thing for his brother, only for Piper and Lochy for him and I wanted to show the evidence otherwise because it was literally the first thing I noticed.

After he asks how many bedrooms there are and is told it's three, he immediately says "Ok, so Lochy, you're with me."

Piper doesn't seem to like that and offers for him to sleep with her instead (knowing there was some kind incest vibe, it really came across like they're fighting over him). He then objects by pointing out brothers and sisters shouldn't sleep together. Which seems like a classic way to set up for possible gay stuff, "oh it's just guys/girls, don't worry, we can be naked around each other, no big deal".

When Piper invites Lochy to the temple, he immediately goes. "No, we were gonna go to the pool".

He asks him again like he's genuinely upset at Lochy possibly not going with him, and maybe even by being with his sisters instead. Once again, like they're fighting over him, it's even framed with Lochy looking indecisive at the two of them, not knowing which option to pick (parallel with the college thing? Possibly a common theme for his character).

After he says he'll go to temple first and then the pool after, he's still upset.

When Lochy does get to the pool, he notices it and calls him immediately.

After a quick question about the monks, what does he do? Grab his dick and talk about how he gets so horny traveling.

When they're in bed, he immediately starts to talk shit about Piper's buddishm and her overall attitude in life, saying Buddism is for people who "want to supress in life", and most notably. "Don't have desires, don't even try."

And then he tells him that it's good to want things, at least if you can have them. If we're to assume he knows about Lochy possibly being attracted to him, this feels like a subtle way of encouraging that. Of telling it's ok to have these desires, that it's worth a try...

And there's where it comes the theory that Piper isn't actually into Lochy but just trying to "protect" him from Saxon, possibly because he tried something with her in the past and she didn't like it. So no wonder he's bitter about her and thinks she wants to "supress things".

In this case, by telling Lochy to do the opposite, the implication would be that he should "give it a try" with him, unlike her.

He comments on how good-looking he is.

And then tells him he "Doen't need to shrink away from life like her". Again, if we're going with the theory that he tried something with her in the past, he's trying to push him in the other direction. Don't reject it.

And then, you know. Asking him what kind of porn does he like. Going back, he does that right after saying he should "get laid, get everything" and that he's "going to help him" with that.

It's also just, like, the most classic and obvious set-up, to bring in sex/porn into the conversation, the idea of watching it together or what not...

"How the fuck am I going to jerk off with you in here all week."

Already kinda suggestive considering the vibes, but... Remember that he asked to room with him, and even objected when Piper suggested otherwise, when that would've left him with his own room.

I guess the confusing part is when he closes the door after he noticed Lochy still watching him. But honestly it would probably be too far to just jerk off in front of him like he's not even trying to not be weird.

He might just be playing the long game, and walking up naked to watch porn with him still awake in the room still feels like quite a tease. He might also just be getting cold feet, or, perhaps, the whole thing is subconscious rather than on purpose and at that moment he has the realization of how weird this situation is.

There's actually a moment where you can notice him thinking about whether Lochy is looking before he looks back at him, and it seems like he's a little nervous about it (before this shot he was just looking at the screen, but then he raises his head to question it).

So, cold feet? Checking to see if the teasing is working or if he looked away? A bit freaked out with the realization of how weird he's been?Idk, but it's definetely not one-sided, and I was actually more surprised at the implication that Lochy felt the same.

[thebaldursmouthgazette]

That is not the story. The story is not about someone who is desperately trying to resist magic bindings that force his hand. I can see why that would be an interesting story, but that’s not what this one is.

You’re applying the magical part of this extremely inconsistently. I agree that an enslaved person starting a slave rebellion is also an interesting plot, but for that to happen they would either have to be not literally bound to a slavers will, or find a way to break those bonds so that they are no longer bound to their will.

Either solas is literally magically bound to Mythals will, and therefore would have been completely unable to rebel against Mythal when she was at the height of her power (as well as many of the other things he did, including literally killing her), or he is not literally magically bound to her will and therefore all his actions are, at least on some level, his own choice he made and he is responsible for them to some degree.

You cannot have it both ways. You cannot have it that Mythals will was not binding enough to stop solas rebelling against her at the height of her power, but was binding enough to force him to do something he really didn’t want to do millennia after her death, and after he stole a portion of her power from her (something else he should not be able to do). The veil wasn’t even up when Mythal died. How are there remnants of orders living on past her death when the thing they concern literally had not happened yet? And if the order were to preserve the world as it was (why would Mythal give those orders?) then how was he able to put up the veil in the first place?

The plot is literally not coherent unless solas is wanting to take down the veil of his own free will. For all the above reasons but also because it’s incredibly clear he wants it. He tries to convince the inquisitor of its benefits in a conversation in inquisition.

If you find the idea of that story compelling, go off. I agree it sounds interesting. But that’s not what this story is about.

And there are people who find the actual story, about a man who is the literal embodiment of hubristic pride, who manipulates, lies, kills, gaslights, denies personhood and the mere right to exist based on bigoted and narrow viewpoints, and becomes everything he pretends to hate in service of selfish desires he has convinced himself are necessary evils, being stopped, extremely compelling. Either by having every single excuse and justification he has ever used to pretend what he’s doing is right systematically deconstructed until he has absolutely nothing left to do except that admit he is in the wrong. Or by going “you know what, no more chances for you since you’ve used every single one you’ve been given to do even more fucked up shit, into the fade with ye”.

The idea that Solas was secretly desperate to not bring the veil down and was actually being controlled by Mythal is in direct contradiction to most of the relevant character events. It also completely erases Solas’ motivation as a character, most of his characterisation, and the themes of the story as a whole. If you find the concept a compelling character idea then fine, I can see why, but that character isn’t Solas. Thats a completely different person you’ve come up with. Make a story about them, stop trying to force a completely different story into that shape

No, the veil did not need to come down. It never did.

Something that is extremely consistent throughout inquisition is that the tears in the fade are HURTING spirits. Spirit society, like mortal society, has adapted to having the veil present and just like mortal society it is being thrown into chaos by its weakening.

Something that is consistent throughout trespasser and the media between trespasser and veilguard is that taking down the veil would have harmed everyone and destroyed society as we know it, at the very least killing most (if not all) humans, dwarves and qunari (who have no less of a right to exist than the elves).

He says as much in trespasser, and then never denies it when called out. It’s always “do you truly believe that is my plan” and “I had plans to minimise the damage”, never an explicit “no, that would not happen”. He tells the inquisitor that tearing down the veil will destroy the world and then never denies it when asked, he just stops being so open about it. This is a man who uses careful wording so that he can say he rarely lies, what he doesn’t say is deeply significant.

The veil going up initially hurt people, but the world has since adapted and is now in a state where tearing it down would cause more damage for no reason. The veil being put up hurt elven society because they had buildings that relied on both places, but they no longer have that. Nobody is being actively hurt by the veil being up, bringing it down would just destroy everything to get a world that is different but not inherently better.

But Solas regrets putting it up. Solas wishes he didn’t put it up. He wants to take it down, not because it is actively hurting anyone, but because he feels bad about it. It’s something he regrets, something he wishes he hadn’t done, and taking it down will placate his conscience. And all the consequences can be justified under “i feel sad about it but it had to be done” even though it didn’t ever have to be done. This is how he has justified every crime before.

Rook has not doomed the world by keeping the veil up. They have saved this world, instead of dooming it to cling onto scraps of a culture long long dead and placate the conscience of a man who has never been able to handle the concept of “no”.

[thesweetnessofspring]

Writing this because @lasthaysileeshipper brought up that there is a connection with how fandom views of Mrs. Everdeen and her mental illness coincide with misogyny and I have thoughts.

First I want to say that this is a topic that often gets personalized. Many people experienced their own childhood neglect/abuse and as we carry ourselves into fiction, that leads to intense feelings when seeing it played out. However, there is also a lot that gets said about Mrs. Everdeen (even by well-intentioned people who don't hate her) that carries an implicit bias against women, mothers, and those with mental illness. I hope that this leads to reflection rather than blame, and if you have anything to say I'm open to respectful discussion.

Katniss's Mother: The One the Fandom Made into Medea

You've heard about the Madonna/Whore complex, now I propose Mary/Medea: a fictional mother must be an absolute perfect selfless saint whose identity revolves solely around her children, or else be a selfish abusive demon with no redeeming qualities whatsoever

tumblr post by @gingerpolyglot

If you've been in the Hunger Games fandom for a minute, you've seen the hate and criticism directed at Mrs. Everdeen. She's been called a bad mother, weak, neglectful, incapable, the "worst" character in the series, and more. If you've read the series then you know why: after the death of her husband, Mrs. Everdeen "didn't do anything but sit propped up in a chair or, more often, huddled under the blankets on her bed, eyes fixed on some point in the distance." And while she did "slowly" return to a state where she was able to complete activities of daily living, it was "months" of "neglect," where Katniss was feeding her family; foraging and hunting in the woods; and trading at the Hob. Anyone can see how this, following the death of their father, is incredibly traumatizing for Katniss and Prim. It's a position that no child should be in, which is why we have families, communities, and social services to protect children when their parent is unable to care for them and hopefully, get help for the parent, too. For the Everdeens in Panem, however, none of these existed. At least none that would truly help them, as Katniss fears going to The Home where children are physically abused. All of this left a deep wound on Katniss and we can assume Prim as well.

But, rather than critiquing Panem for dangerous work conditions that killed Mr. Everdeen, or the scarcity of food, or the social divides which isolated Mrs. Everdeen after her marriage to Mr. Everdeen, or the lack of social services, the blame has often been laid directly at the feet of Mrs. Everdeen who exhibits symptoms of catatonia. This is a feature that can be part of other disorders (rather than a diagnosis itself) and can be found in schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, brief psychotic disorder, and depression (and though not in the DSM-5, there's also some evidence of it also appearing in those with PTSD). From the DSM-5, Mrs. Everdeen meets criteria to have catatonia specified with another disorder (likely depression) by having three of the following symptoms:

Stupor: "she didn't do anything but sit propped up in a chair, more often, huddled under the blankets of her bed, eyes fixed on some point in the distance."

Mutism-same quote as above: she didn't do anything. No speech and Katniss doesn't report her making any noise. While not the books, the movies portrayed this as Katniss begging her mother to "say something" while she does not.

Negativism ("opposition or no response to instructions or external stimuli"). "No amount of pleading from Prim seemed to affect her."

Catatonia is a serious condition that requires hospitalization, psycho-pharmaceuticals, and once the catatonia is passed, therapy, to prevent a relapse. If left untreated, catatonia can lead to death or injury.

Here is the first point where misogyny comes into play of how the fandom responds to Mrs. Everdeen. I have seen her condition described as "grief" or "depression" but not what the text indicates it is: depression with catatonic features. The list above has links to the URMC's Department of Psychology with training videos on catatonia symptoms. I'd encourage you to watch it, because that is the level of mental illness Mrs. Everdeen was stuck in. It was not regular grief or a moderate depression. Katniss, who has no diagnostic language, says her mother was "locked in some dark world" during this time.

Women's symptoms are downplayed in the medical field because they're "emotional," "dramatic," and "hysterical." Here, we often see the fandom do the same. Even those who don't express outright hatred for her character will soften the truth of what she was facing with her catatonia. Again, it's "when her husband died" and "grief" and "depression." All of those are certainly hard, but they often retain some amount of functioning when given enough motivation and coping skills. But Mrs. Everdeen did not have any functioning. It was literally impossible for her to do anything in that period of time because of her catatonia. She says "I couldn't help...I was ill" and a large portion of the fandom simply doesn't believe her.

And on the more hostile side, I have seen people say they "don't care" about Mrs. Everdeen's mental illness. Apparently, being a mother means that Mrs. Everdeen should have fought through this catatonic depression. That the power of love or the innate protectiveness that all good mothers have would make Mrs. Everdeen's brain chemicals start working and snap her out of this catatonia. However, despite what you see in the movies, that's not how serious mental illness works, especially without support. It's not a matter of love or will power. Mothers can and do experience serious mental illness that make them unable, for various periods of time, to care for their children. Sometimes, motherhood even causes this or exacerbates it. Motherhood does not give anyone the ability to turn off mental illness.

This was (as far as we know) Mrs. Everdeen's first experience with serious mental illness in a place where there are no social services, no therapists, no psychiatrists, no spiritual leaders. Additionally, no family, friends, or neighbors came to support the family, either. No one thought to check in on them or cared about any signs of their condition. Doing anything for the first time leads to mistakes and this first experience was by all definition a crisis of which she hadn't been prepared nor given any support beyond what her two children could offer. A position that Katniss and Prim shouldn't have had to deal with.

This also leads into the other time that people look at and say, "I can forgive Mrs. Everdeen when her husband died, but when she didn't go back to Twelve with Katniss, that was it. She became unforgivable."

Let's back up: Mrs. Everdeen has lost her husband, seen her oldest daughter enter two Hunger Games, watched her home be bombed and burned, survived another bombing, was a nurse during a war, and then her youngest daughter was blown up at the age of 13. Rather than going into a catatonic depression, she "buries her grief in her work." When Katniss is taken back to District 12, she's given a letter from her mother, which she doesn't read initially and never says what was in. Haymitch says, "You know why she can't come back" to which Katniss's narration says "Because between my father and Prim and the ashes, the place is too painful to bear."

Mrs. Everdeen has a history of catatonic depression. This means that she is at a higher risk of relapsing. She knows that her husband's death triggered this mental illness and that she is once again experiencing the loss of one of the people she loves most, her young daughter. She also knows that when she was in a catatonic depression, she traumatized her surviving daughter. Additionally, Panem has just finished a war. Therapists are rare in Panem, even more to find a surviving one and let's be honest—how many of them are good? Katniss and Peeta are prioritized for treatment due to their fame and their history of violence toward others. While Mrs. Everdeen has connections, it's unlikely she would be prioritized for treatment and additionally, there are likely many people with acute mental health needs after the war.

If Mrs. Everdeen returned to District 12, she would be likely to do extremely poorly mentally and emotionally, perhaps to the point of becoming catatonic again. People will blame her, calling her weak and neglectful again. But I think what we have to consider is: did Mrs. Everdeen think that staying away would help Katniss? That she identified what would trigger her, and so rather than Katniss having to see her mother in that state again and traumatizing her again, she made the choice to stay away, in hopes that her absence would be the better choice for them.

In the end, we don't know for sure all of her reasoning. This is my hypothesis that this is why she stayed away. But I find that most people don't take Mrs. Everdeen's assessment of herself seriously. They again downplay just how terrible her mental health could become, and by extension, further traumatize Katniss. And maybe you think that her presence, no matter the state, is better than her absence. But you have to admit, Mrs. Everdeen is stuck with no good answer. Either way, she loses.

And so, Mrs. Everdeen is "a bad mother."

Perhaps because Katniss does it herself in CF, people will compare Gale's mother to Katniss's. Hazelle lost her husband in the same mining accident and was pregnant at the time. Yet she went to work as a laundress, she pulled her family together, she is a strong one. And, though the book is not out yet, there have already been many comparisons to how Haymitch's Ma is another one of the "good" mothers after her husband died, because she went to work, not like Mrs. Everdeen. Isn't it tragic that Mrs. Abernathy, one of the good mothers, will be dead by the end of the book she appears in?

And so, the fandom has given its crowns to Hazelle and Mrs. Abernathy. They are "The Good" mothers who have done no wrong toward their children. They are Marys. But Mrs. Everdeen, dirty with mental illness, is "The Bad" mother. She is Medea, the source and cause of Katniss's trauma. Nevermind that Hazelle is such a minor character she only appears in three scenes of the books and that she relied on Gale as much as or more than Mrs. Everdeen relied on Katniss, or that everything we know so far about Mrs. Abernathy is from one released excerpt and one sentence from Haymitch in the original trilogy. But from what we do know, she also relies on her sons to keep their family from starvation, not unlike Mrs. Everdeen with Katniss.

And nevermind that this take also actively negates many good things we do know about Mrs. Everdeen. Like the fact that she did work and earn money/items: she was a healer (and possibly did this even before Mr. Everdeen died). And, by all accounts, that she was an excellent healer, knowing how to treat all kinds of injuries and illnesses and kept a cool head while doing it. And that nearly all interactions we see between herself and Katniss, she is caring for her daughter: drawing and heating her bath, braiding her hair, giving her an excuse to be less affectionate with Peeta, treating her foot, putting her on a diet to build muscle before the Quell, treating her whenever she was in the hospital. Mrs. Everdeen is also the one that Prim wanted to sleep with the night before her first reaping, showing that her younger daughter still saw her as a protective figure. Also, after an entire nation has come to know Katniss and her circle has expanded, Mrs. Everdeen is one of three people Katniss believes truly loves her at that point in time.

And yet, how often is any of this discussed about her? Hardly ever. What is mostly discussed is her neglect, the places she failed and stumbled, pointing the finger and laying the blame, while rarely providing any context around the fact that at the time, she was mentally ill to the point that today she would have been hospitalized. The adjectives given to her are things like weak, frail, useless, and neglectful which are completely based on the worst episode of her life. I wonder how all of us would like the same treatment, for our most shameful period of time to be how people describe us.

Mrs. Everdeen is far from the only character in the series with mental illness. This mostly comes in the form of PTSD and substance use disorder. Characters with the most prominent symptoms include: Katniss, Haymitch, Finnick, Johanna, and Annie (the latter also having some kind of diagnosis that would fall under or feature psychosis). Peeta also has PTSD and his hijacking to contend with, and Coriolanus Snow has traits that align with narcissistic personality disorder.

And yet...why is Mrs. Everdeen's mental illness the most maligned out of all of these characters? Some may say because hers almost lead to Katniss and Prim dying. But President Snow is responsible for the deaths of thousands of children, and Haymitch was also willing to gamble with Katniss's and Peeta's life for the rebellion, two kids who became his family. All of these other characters have actually killed somebody, and Peeta's hijacking also directly led to him strangling Katniss and trying again to kill her in the Capitol.

So why is it that Mrs. Everdeen is the most hated? Possibly Snow is the exception, but since TBOSAS, he has equal number of admirers both in terms of his looks and general interest of his character, while Mrs. Everdeen is dismissed at best and hated at worst.

I think this also links back to an implicit bias against the feminine. Haymitch, Finnick, Peeta, Snow—they're all men. Even Peeta, the most feminine of these four, is masculine. Katniss has both masculine and feminine traits, but oftentimes, people see her masculine traits more. Johanna is the same: her brash attitude is more masculine than feminine. Annie is presented as feminine, with Finnick's insistence on protecting her and her fragility and youth and long wavy dark hair. She is presented as the "good" feminine, the kind that must be guarded and coddled. The "good" kind of weakness (this, too, is misogyny).

Mrs. Everdeen, however, is the "bad" feminine. Blond, middle-aged, polite, and entirely lacking power. She is the opposite of Katniss's wild hunter side as the quiet healer, working with plants and seemingly not doing the "dirty" work outdoors, even though she's probably come in contact with every type of bodily fluid as a result of her work. And of course, she's been blemished by the label of "bad mother" nor is she young to garner sympathy and protection.

Mrs. Everdeen's trauma that kickstarted her depression is different than the others. Snow was traumatized by war. The rest are all victors, who had to see and do horrible things to survive. Mrs. Everdeen.....lost her husband. The fact that this is what kicked off her mental illness makes it feminine and flimsy compared to those that came from the Games. It wasn't a metaphor for a soldier that caused her mental illness, but weakening at the loss of a man. Surely a strong woman, another "good" feminine, wouldn't have gotten mentally ill at the loss of her husband (look at Hazelle and Mrs. Abernathy).

Everyone else, even feminine Annie, has masculine trauma. Mrs. Everdeen has feminine trauma. What a crime. How pathetic. She shouldn't have even been mentally ill in the first place.

And so she's been stuck in fandom discussion for fifteen years. The bad mother, the Medea, who not only wasn't strong enough to fight against her mental illness, she did it as a weak, pathetic woman.

I'm going against this call and I will say that I consider Mrs. Everdeen a good mother. Her story is laced with tragedy that challenged her and brought great strain in her relationship with Katniss. But we know that she loved her daughters and always cared for them at the greatest capacity she was able to at any time. She was calm, level-headed, and even rebellious, which was eventually challenged because she became a mother and wanted to protect her children. Even those who sympathize with her rarely say it, so I'll end this with my final conclusion:

Mrs. Everdeen was a good mother. Not a Mary, and not a Medea, but simply a good mother.

More discussion from me because I know it will come up:

Katniss, as the victim of her mother's neglect, is allowed to feel any type of way she wants about what happened to her. However we see through the series that she is able to sympathize with her mother and even forgives her and becomes closer to her through the three books. Katniss's relationship with her mother is complicated (as it should be). There is also a lot of room for growth and healing that I hope happened after the war.

[blueskittlesart]

Can I have your directors insight on your Mipha comic? :0 I'd love to know why you chose certain imagery like the hand holding and head kisses and wounds.........I'm going insane over it 😭 🫶 Ive been a fan of your art for a while now and mipha's my favourite so Im so obsessed with this comic haha

YESSSS 😁 so as previously mentioned ive been attempting to write a mipha comic for a little over a year now, and most of the time what stopped me was the fact that there's SO MUCH about her that I found interesting and wanted to cover. the process for this comic was a little bit different than my usual one in that I actually started with the last few lines "i thought maybe if i loved hard enough, i could stop time / I could freeze you in place as i knew you once / the little boy whose skinned knees were so easy to heal / what a childish thought" and built the script out from there, which thankfully gave me a clear direction to focus on, i.e. wounds/healing and aging. the script also went through a few revisions (the first version was much more heavily based around the word 'pain' which eventually became 'wound' in almost every instance because I thought the imagery of a wound was easier to tie to the other concepts i was working with than a less concrete concept like pain.)

One of the major differences in structure between this comic and my sort of. standard i guess? is the aspect ratio--when i started drafting in my usual portrait orientation, I realized that a lot of the panel compositions and imagery I had in my head were very vertical, which meant I wasn't getting the level of gutter space I felt I needed for my text to have the right impact, which is why the final comic ended up in a landscape orientation! truthfully i'd also been getting kind of bored with my standard ratio--i'm doing a (VERY LONG) graphic novel in that same ratio for my senior thesis right now, and at a certain point the standard panel layouts that look good and flow well with a page shape like that kind of start to bore you. When I changed the orientation of the page all of a sudden everything clicked and the project started being exciting again!

As for the imagery itself, I usually have SOME idea of the imagery i want to use as i'm writing, and with this one the things I knew for certain had to be present were the use of red for both mipha's body and link's blood. you mentioned the wounds--honestly, the heavy focus on wounds and blood was in large part due to color. Mipha's character design happens to be this really striking red, and she also happens to be a character whose story deals very heavily with wounds and blood by virtue of being a healer, so the idea of using the same singular spot color for both her body and the wounds she was healing, inextricably tying up her presence in link's life with the presence of pain, was SUUUUPER compelling to me. (I do also just. really like drawing wounds. which sounds insane but it's true)

the hand-holding and head kisses truthfully weren't something I thought really hard about beyond like, something that was standard to me as a display of affection between children. One of the most important layers to link and mipha's relationship imo is their relative ages and the way in which that changes overtime. When they meet for the first time, they are both fairly young children. Their relationship at that point is what most childhood relationships are: uncomplicated. easy. they fit together without a second thought. Mipha is slightly older than him, but they're in similar enough phases of their lives that it doesn't really matter; they are able to relate to each other intrinsically in that way. I kind of thought about the gestures of affection common in children who are just starting to understand the concept of romantic attraction--hand-holding, maybe the occasional kiss on the hand or forehead, but never anything more intimate. That way, when they grow up, there's an extra layer of longing on top of it all. Now they're both older, but link has matured much more significantly than mipha in their time apart. Mipha still remembers him as the little boy she knew, and that's reflected in the way she treats him. She'll hold his hands and kiss his forehead, but she's completely unable to go any further. their relationship is so fundamentally juvenile that the only way she can picture his body, let alone touch him, is when it's a job for her to do, when there's a wound there that needs healing. She's younger than him, now, so young that her schoolgirl crush seems monumentally silly and immature in comparison to his adult problems, and the only time she ever comes anywhere close to adult intimacy with him is when there are striking, unavoidable reminders of the weight he has to carry literally carved into his body.

[inhuman-obey-me]

Waltz at the Phoenix Hotel

Word Count: 4,075 Description: Spy!AU: You're attending a rather luxurious party, the scene for your agency's latest mission: an interception case. Things seem to be going smoothly...until they aren't, thanks to two strangers who ruin your plans and turn everything upside-down. Characters: MC, Lucifer, Mammon, Satan, Asmodeus, Diavolo, Barbatos, Solomon, Simeon Note: This is rather different for this blog. I (Mod Cosmos) started this fic nearly four years ago, when the Spy event came out on OG. I abandoned it shortly after, but Mod Chaos kept bugging me every now and then about finishing the fic because they just really wanted to read it for some reason. So, after all this time, I got some motivation and went back and finished it. Sorry if there seems to be a writing shift at one point -- didn't really go back and edit much in what I had written before. But I did change the random woman to Thirteen for fun, so hope you enjoy her little cameo. Can be found on Ao3 here.

You’re standing on the grand stone staircase leading to the expansive pool at the Phoenix Hotel, champagne glass in hand as you observe the crowd. The agency had received valuable intel that there was going to be an exchange tonight, one that would put an important amount of data in the wrong person’s hands. Tasked with intercepting the drop, you found yourself at a fancy cocktail party, rubbing elbows with some of the city’s most notable socialites. You have your eyes out for the target — you had a pretty good description — when you get a signal in your earpiece. 

“Black Sheep. How are things looking over there?” It was Lucifer, who was currently doing a perimeter check with Mammon. 

“Not much to report here, boss.” You took a sip of your champagne, hiding your lips so that no one noticed you speaking to thin air. “How about you?” 

“We’re finishing up. We’ll be back in the main party soon to help keep an eye out.”

“Keep us posted!” Mammon’s voice suddenly comes in, and you can hear a bit of a sigh from Lucifer’s end. “And make sure to watch out for any shady characters. Some of these guys can be real damn obvious.” 

“Some shady guys might look shady, huh? Thanks for the advice.” There’s no hiding the sarcasm in your voice, which earns a huff from the crowing agent. 

You sign off, taking a moment to admire the way the light reflects off of the surface of the pool, a web of light then bouncing off the surrounding marble statues. There are a good number of people out here, but there also wasn’t a clear and quick exit route. It might not be the most strategic place for a drop to take place, but you never knew what tricks your targets could pull. 

Deciding it might be best to check out the main party hall, you head back inside, giving a smile to the waitress who takes your now empty champagne glass from your hand. You give a few more smiles and nods of acknowledgment to those you pass by — wait, is that the actor from The Twilight of a Great Family? — no, stay focused. 

Grand chandeliers float above the floor where the crux of the party is, a great many more people than outside mingling and drinking the night away. You catch sight of Asmodeus and Satan, who are both working the crowd. You pass close by to hear snippets of their conversations — they’re both excellent liars, but as Asmodeus had said, Lies are like accessories, hun!, and you have to keep yourself from smiling as you hear their fibs. You catch Satan’s eye, who gives you a wink before returning to his conversation.

“To your left, Black Sheep.” You look in the aforementioned direction to see Mammon saunter in, Lucifer a few feet away. “We’ve got eyes over here.”

“And we’re covering the right wing.” It still felt odd hearing Barbatos’ voice through the ear piece. After the whole incident with the property purchase, no one expected that both he and Diavolo would now be part of their agency. They were good at what they did, there was no doubt about that, but countless missions later you still couldn’t get completely used to it. 

“Got it, I —” Suddenly, you notice a woman with long, colorful hair and piercing green eyes. She fits the description of the one who would be performing the drop tonight. “Alert. Target spotted.” 

“Where?” Lucifer inquires.

“Hard to miss. She stands out a bit for a covert drop. She’s near the bar, busy talking with others. She seems to be paying a bit of extra attention to her clutch.” You start making your way to the bar, figuring it provided a good vantage point to keep an eye on her while not drawing suspicion. “I’ll stay close.” 

“Be careful. We’ll be here to see if any of the mentioned accomplices are around.”

You go to hover at the bar, though ask if you can just get some sparkling water with lemon. As tempting as a drink would be right now, you had a mission, and the last thing you needed was to mess up because you thought to get boozy. 

“Excuse me, can I get the house whiskey, neat?” You turn to see a young handsome gentleman right by your side, silver wintry locks framing his face. He turns slightly to you with a charming smile, one that reaches his eyes, an interesting mix of brown and blue — but you know not to ever let your guard down. “Why, hello. Enjoying the party?”

“Yes, it’s been a marvelous evening so far.” You give him a polite smile. If you strike up a conversation with him, you can keep an eye on your target without appearing suspicious or obvious. “And how about yourself?”

“I could say the same, though I do wonder,” He nods his head in the direction of the pool. “How smart of an idea it is to have a bar by the pool with all these people in their fancy dress. Imagine someone just falling right in. Terrible.” Despite his words, he has a grin on his face. 

You let out a soft laugh before taking another sip of your beverage, glancing in the direction of the woman you were tailing. She was still busy in conversation with a small crowd, though you caught her looking towards one of the bartenders. Is that who she’s going to give the data to…?

“Why do I get the feeling like you’re suggesting pushing someone in?” You respond, turning slightly to lean against the bar. 

“Me? Never!” The man laughed, his eyes seeming to sparkle. He gave the bartender a ‘Thank you!’ as he received his drink. Taking a small sip, he continued to converse with you. “Are you here with anyone else?”

“Oh, a few friends.” You make a vague motion to the rest of the crowd. “They’re all mingling out there. How about yourself?” 

“I came here with one other friend, but I lost sight of him … he’s probably in the middle of one of these groups.” He waves his hand dismissively after taking a glance around, lifting his glass up for another sip. “Hopefully I’m not bothering you?”

“Oh, no, not at all.” You smile your loveliest of smiles, hoping to continue conversing with him as a cover. Your target was inching her way closer to the bar, and you counted yourself lucky that this was going so smoothly so far.  “So, tell me about the symbols on that ring…” 

Ugh, these people are a bore, Asmodeus thinks to himself as he shifts into yet another conversation. No one he had talked to had been particularly interesting, and even less so informative. That was the nature of their work, in the end — not every situation would actually be helpful. The few he was talking to currently were droning on and on and — Oh? Suddenly, Asmodeus catches sight of a rather beautiful stranger. That perks him right up, and so he excuses himself from the monotonous individuals and made his way over to the other.

“Hello there, handsome.” Asmodeus flashes his most charming smile, long lashes fluttering. “How are you doing this fine evening?” 

“Oh, you flatter me.” The attractive stranger smiles warmly, a tinge of red appearing on his dark skin as he brushes aside a strand of soft, brown hair. “And I’m doing quite well, thank you. Yourself?” 

“Much better now that I have some wonderful company.” Asmo raises his champagne glass, one that he had hardly taken a sip of the entire time he held it this evening. “The name’s Ayden. What’s yours?”

“Scorpion, make sure you’re staying on task.” Lucifer’s warning voice came through his earpiece. The flirtatious agent makes a signal behind his back, communicating “Don’t worry, this is work!”

“You can call me Henry.” He raised his glass to meet the other’s. “To be honest, I wasn’t sure what to expect, but there are far more people here than I thought there would be.” His brilliant cerulean eyes glance around the hall before returning to Asmodeus, his gaze soft. “Apologies if I come across as a bit nervous. I moved here recently, so a friend insisted I tag along. Though, not sure where he’s gone off to now … ” 

“Ah, don’t worry about a thing, my dear Henry! I’m sure you’ll find your friend. But until then, I’ll keep you company. So, tell me, what brought you to the city .. ?” Asmodeus began his series of questions to get people to open up, to perhaps give something away, let just the tiniest detail slip that might give him something that he wants … flirting was just a bonus. 

As they converse, Satan hovers close by. He also hadn’t much luck with those he had been speaking to, none of them potential suspects for accomplices. Just rich and well-known folks running in the upper circles of society. Not to say that the conversations still couldn’t be interesting — there was always plenty to learn — but it was getting frustrating that they were having so little luck finding the people they wanted. At least Black Sheep has the main target, he muses, looking over to the bar to see them conversing with a stranger. The target was still nearby, arguably even closer to them then she had been before. 

“Apologies for the intrusion,” Satan walks over to his fellow agent and the stranger, earning a quick glare from Asmodeus. “But I just have to ask, where did you get that lovely white vest?” And just like that, Satan eases himself into the conversation, all the while continuing to observe the target from afar. 

Henry smiles at them both, continuing to engage in conversation quite happily, fingers seemingly idly fiddling with a ring on his right hand. 

“Fascinating. I really do wonder if you’re just trying to pull my leg here.” You’ve been deep in  conversation with this man for a bit now — Sal, he said his name was — and you had to admit he was certainly entertaining company. 

“Well, it’s up to you if you believe me or not.” He shrugs with a bit of a mischievous grin. 

“Black Sheep, looks like she’s getting ready to make the drop.” You hear Diavolo’s voice through your earpiece — he must have been watching from his current station. Sure enough, your target has removed a small silver case from her clutch as she leans against the bar a bit a ways from where you currently are — and the bartender is walking towards her. 

“Ah, apologies, I see one of my friends over there,” You push yourself away from the bar counter, taking a step towards the woman — though you make sure to take your still half-full glass of sparkling water with you. “It was very nice to meet you, Sal. Perhaps I’ll see you around later?” 

“Oh, of course. It was a pleasure to meet you as well.” He smiles, but there almost seems to be something off about it. You don’t have time to dwell on that, you remind yourself, and quickly make your way to the target, who looks like she’s about to order a drink. She’s covered the small case with a black bar napkin. Perfect.

You pretend to trip, purposefully letting your beverage spill all over the woman’s dress, eliciting a shocked gasp.

“Oh no! Oh my goodness, I’m so sorry!” You immediately apologize, hand going to grab the napkins from their place on the bar, swiftly collecting the one that hid the data as well.

The woman is obviously irritated, but tries to brush it off. “Mm. Accidents happen.”

“Thankfully it was just water, so it should dry up without any damage!” You reassure her, passing the ordinary napkins to her hand so that she could dab at the spill, all the while tucking your prize into your sleeve. A few more apologies and exchanges later, you make your exit, ready to declare mission success and get yourself out of here before the woman realized she was missing something very important.

At least, that was your plan. 

You’re about to radio in your triumph when a series of actions happens so quickly you don’t have time to react. Something (or rather, someone) causes you to actually trip this time, but you’re saved from an unsightly fall by fingers that gently but firmly wrap around your wrist and an arm around your waist. Before you can even begin to turn around to thank your savior, you hear a familiar voice in your ear,

“Sorry about this.”

A response can’t even leave your lips as you’re suddenly twirled away as if you were dancing the waltz, only to be found without a partner when you come back full circle. You can feel dread beginning to bubble up in the pit of your stomach, and you check to see if you have the small drive, patting yourself down.

It’s gone. Shit.

Your eyes dart around to find the culprit, and you manage to catch a glimpse of those silver locks disappearing into the crowd. 

“Uh, we’ve got a problem.” You run after him while alerting the rest of the agency. “Looks like someone else was after the data too. Tall guy, silver hair, navy blue suit with a lighter blue shirt. He’s running towards the West exit.”

You’re only met with static. 

“Hello? Can anyone hear me?”

The white noise continues. 

This couldn’t be happening … was something jamming their communicators?! 

You’ve lost sight of Sal — If that’s even his real name! — so you look around for any other familiar faces. Surely the others noticed by now that they couldn’t communicate with each other..?

“Hey!” Diavolo’s suddenly at your side. “Thank goodness I was keeping watch nearby — I can’t get through to anyone, but several of them had eyes on you, so they should be going after the guy.” 

Sure enough, you catch Lucifer and Mammon running out the West doors. Both you and Diavolo follow suit, trying not to raise too much of a commotion as you weave through the crowd. The cool night air is welcome as you’re feeling a bit too warm from running as your heartbeat races. A security guard tries to get in your way, but you both dash past him, calling out a “Sorry!” behind you as you continue your chase.

Moments Before ...

“Sorry, gentlemen, but looks like my friend is calling.” Henry gives the other two an apologetic smile. “It was lovely to meet you both. Perhaps we’ll meet again soon.” 

“It was a pleasure to make your acquaintance,” Satan starts.

“—And I’d love to see you again. Give me a call when you get the chance?" Asmo finishes, slipping a card into Henry's hand. "Bye-bye, now!” He gives the departing gentleman a wink and wave before turning to his fellow agent with a sigh. “Well, he was an interesting fellow. Think he might be of interest in the future?” 

“He certainly seemed sharp,” Satan hums. “But also hard to read …” The blond shakes his head, taking the last sip of his drink. "Think our sheep's got the drop yet? Haven't heard an update…" He takes a moment to look around the party, and it dawns on him that he can't hear or see any of the others. "I think we have a problem."

"Hm?" Asmodeus slams the compact mirror in his hand shut, eyes narrowing as he notices a sudden commotion by the West entrance. "Well, I think we've got a bit of fun on our hands."

Static comes over the communicators, a distorted voice coming through: Tchhh…upstairs…tchhh…roof…tchhh

"Fun isn't the word I'd use." Satan huffed. "Let's go."

You're thankful that Barbatos memorized the layout of the hotel and its surroundings before the mission, as he managed to get ahead of the thief and block him from going any further on this quieter side of the promenade. Lucifer and Mammon flank him from the other side, effectively backing him against the wall.

"Really thought you could get past all of us?" Mammon mocks, confidently putting out a hand, fingers waving in a 'gimme' motion. "Hand it over, pal."

"I'm afraid I don't know what you're talking about—"

"Oh, save it!" You catch up, slightly out of breath with Diavolo on your heels. "You know exactly what he means. You stole something from me, so hand it over."

"Stole?" That damned mischievous smile again. "Weren't you doing the same thing? Not sure any of you have more right to it than I do."

"That may be true." Chills run down your spine as Barbatos speaks. "But it would be in your best interest to comply and give us what we're asking for, before things take a rather nasty turn."

"HEY!" A couple of burly hotel security personal charge towards you. "What's going on?!"

"Well, have fun with that!" Taking advantage of the distraction, Sal managed to hoist himself up to the fire escape that was hanging above, scampering up a ladder before diving through an open window that's promptly shut behind him. He's not alone!

"Sorry, officers. We'll be out of your hair in a moment!" Diavolo steps forward to distract the guards, signaling for the rest to pursue. "It's just a bit of a personal issue. I'll be happy to explain everything…"

"Door to the right, should go into the service stairwell." Barbatos taps a hacked keycard and unlocks the door, yanking it wide open. "I'll stay here in case they come back down, you all better hurry."

"Don't have to tell us twice," you sprint up the stairs, Mammon ahead and Lucifer behind.

"They're escapin' by going up? This place has 9 floors, right?" Mammon asks, and you think back to what you remember of the hotel blueprint.

"Crap." Realization dawns on you, your heart pounding as loud as your steps hitting the concrete stairs. "There's a private helipad on the roof. Think they got an escape helicopter?"

"Let's assume they do." Lucifer replies, but your upward ascent is shortly interrupted by a loud scream on floor seven. The door swings open, a housekeeper stumbling into the stairwell, her eyes widening as she sees all of you.

"Sorry ma'am!" A familiar voice from the hallway, and you whip around the landing and housekeeper to dart into the corridor, jumping over an overturned housekeeping cart to see that Satan and Asmodeus have cornered Sal — and another. His accomplice.

"And I thought we had something special, Henry! Or whatever your name is!" Asmodeus pouts, stun gun in hand and pointed firmly at the beautiful stranger. Satan had his aimed at the one more familiar to you. "Now, how about you hand it over and we can forget all about this, hm?"

"I'm afraid that's not possible." Henry responds with a soft yet dazzling smile.

"You're outnumbered, five to two." Lucifer steps forward, his expression stern. "You don't have much of a choice."

"Now, now," Sal responds, putting his hands up as if to surrender. "I think we might actually all be on the same side here. We're both trying to make sure this data doesn't get in the wrong hands, right?"

"You could very well be the wrong hands." Satan snarls. "You don't exactly inspire confidence."

"Ouch!" Sal chuckles, shaking his head. "Look, we've actually heard about you guys. One of the best agencies around. We didn't realize you'd also be here when we picked up this intelligence. A fault on our contact's part."

"We do, however, have good reason to believe that this data is essential to a very important case." Henry shifts in place, and you notice his thumb brushing against a ring on is middle finger. "Which is why we're reluctant to give it up. If we can come to an agreement…"

"Not a chance!" Mammon huffs, his hand going to his own stun gun. "We've got no reason to trust you two."

"Hmph." Lucifer shoots a look to Mammon. "Hand it over to us first, and then we can see about any agreements."

"And what if you just take it for yourselves?" Sal shakes his head, a hand going into his inner suit pocket. "We'll need something a bit more concrete than that."

Ding. The sound of an arriving elevator sets a flurry into motion.

"Oh no you don't!" Asmodeus snaps as the two start moving, his finger hitting the trigger on his weapon — only for nothing to happen, and you feel the hair on your neck rise. "What the…?"

A loud hiss hits your ear next and you recognize the sound of a smoke bomb going off, your vision clouded. Coughing as you try to get a handle on your surroundings, you make out two shadows sprinting through the hallway.

"Fuck, they hit us with an EMP! No wonder our guns didn't work." You hear Satan behind you as you lunge towards the elevator lobby, cursing as you slam right into the doors as they shut.

"Damn it. Everyone, to the stairs!"

"Wait," Lucifer is beside you now. "They're not going up — they're going down."

"Down…wait, the parking garage!"

"You lot go upstairs just in case," Lucifer commands of Mammon, Satan, and Asmodeus as you all reach the stairwell. "We'll go down and try to get a hold of the other two."

Hands gripping the railing, you and Lucifer both leap down the stairs, nearly free-falling at times as you skip over landings — one moment your foot touches the floor, the next you're in the air again as you make another leap.

"Dragon. Butler. Can you two hear us? They're escaping through the parking garage!" You frantically speak, hoping the communicators are working again.

"Tchhh…can't…zhhhh…in pursuit."

The garbled message means something got through, and you can only hope that Diavolo and Barbatos got the gist of your message.

Bursting through the doors of the parking garage, you hear a motor revving along with a chorus of yells. You exchange a look with Lucifer and both dash towards the furor, only to hear a loud crash in a matter of seconds.

"We've got them!" Diavolo shouts the moment he sees you and Lucifer, his hand on the car's driver-side handle, ready to rip the door open.

But when he does, there's no one inside.

"What—" Diavolo's jaw hangs open, with Barbatos glowering beside him.

A screech of tires, and you all turn to see a motorbike peel out on the far other side of the garage. The shock leaves your bodies as you all race to the other exit, only to see that the two intruders were long gone.

"How many escape plans did they come up with?!" Adrenaline still pumping through your veins, you kick a concrete pillar in frustration.

"You lost them?!" Satan's voice echoes through the structure, the others having now come to join the rest of the agents left bewildered by the night's events.

"Those two…they're good." Asmodeus whistles, bristling as several others shoot him a glare. "What? They are! They managed to get away from us, all seven of us!"

"We need to find out who they are." Barbatos sighs. "Perhaps Leviathan can help track them down if we can collect any footage."

"I think we'll be needin' to make our escape first." Mammon glances over his shoulder. "Somethin' tells me the hotel staff and security aren't gonna be too happy with us causing such a ruckus."

"Right, let's get out of here and regroup." Lucifer massages his temple. "We've got a lot of work ahead of us."

Defeated, you all scamper to your own getaway vehicles, the faint sound of approaching police sirens putting an extra pep to your step and a rev to the engines.

As you settle into your seat, you take stock of what you still had on you. Your stun gun, your communicator, a few other covert tools, and — wait, what's this?

A business card tucked into your belt, thick and smooth to the touch. Through the passing streetlights, you can see there's a single word in the center, embossed in blue and gold:

PURGATORY

Flipping it over, there's a string of digits, with a handwritten note underneath:

Call me. ;)

You scoff in disbelief.

"What've you got there, hun?" Asmodeus looks up from his phone, glancing at your hand.

"Oh," you calmly pocket the card again. "…It's nothing."

[huginsmemory]

@the-gay-prometheus THANK YOU YES! It'd been a while since I read TBOB, but with the details you really see that even though there are instances before even the sticky note, Bill doesn't do much direct physical harm to Ford, even if it ultimately ramps up to very verbal/situational abuse with only a dash of physical abuse... Even though Bill usually will happily go for physical abuse. And I mean, also looking at Bill scratching at the door thing... Bill is also desperate. There IS a timeline for how long they can stay in the nightmare realm and I think there is something terrifying on Bill's end of having that escape suddenly be shut off to him... (But that also doesn't detract from the horror of what Ford is experiencing).

Also, I think some of the 'niceties' Bill goes for could also be construed as 'carrot and stick routine', especially after the rooftop incident, with the fire and the chess set, but the thing is that it DOES come out of Bill's care for Ford and not just him wanting Ford to boot up the portal (it's a look at what we had; we can have this again, I want this again too. But it's only possible if you co-operate). And I think it comes out of the fact this is such a incredible well done depiction of an abusive relationship because just as there are often good times in abusive relationships that have people coming back to them, the person who is abusive most of the time does have a form of deep care for or love the other person, but it's a selfish love that is twisted by that person's own desires and needs which overrules their partners own autonomy (perhaps a better word is deeply attached... one can argue the definitions here. Also this is NOT me excusing those folks. Get the fuck out of there. It's just that relationships and caring for people can be more twisted than what people like to assume on the surface). And you see that with them. Bill cares about Ford, but he's also extremely selfish and not only that but self-destructive; this triangles got a whole SWATH of issues, and he can't for the life of him be honest about anything, especially regarding losing face. He lies and lies and lies (which I've chewed on over here lol). The only time we really see him be honest is with Ford about his dimension when he calls himself indirectly a monster (cough, self destructive tendencies from guilt)... And I think what's compelling is that he HAS been somewhat truthful with Ford before, because he does care about and relates to Ford. And it's possible if they did talk he would have been possibly honest again with Ford, about the nightmare dimension falling apart. But it doesn't happen because Ford refuses, which makes perfect sense narratively. And I really can't see it going any other way, without them not both being the characters that they are.

And I think WHY I really like the both of them as you've said is the tragedy of it. That Bill actually CARES but he's too fucked up over things to be able to really care properly. On top of the fact that they're both very similar characters and have found refuge and love with each other, even if it's codependent as fuck. And it all falls apart, even if there was real care and love in it, before it turned (exponentially) toxic. Good tragedy is when things COULD have turned out okay but the characters (will always) fail to make the right decisions, will always fuck it up. And you see that, cause you wonder what would happen if Bill was honest about the nightmare dimension, and to some degree if Ford would have actually spoken to Bill (and if Bill was honest in that conversation). But that's not them. Besides they've also got a fuck ton of other issues they'd have to deal with on top of that...

Really can't get over the CAN WE TALK? stickynotes. And I mean I think part of it really kinda clicked when I've seen some fanart about it. We really see in TBOB that Ford after beginning to hear voices slipping through the cracks and questions Bill, to learn what Bill really intended, ENTIRELY shuts down his communication with Bill. And you see Bill when he gets questioned in that moment responds with a heavily implied dialogue along the lines of "haha, yeah I tricked you, I'm here to overtake your dimension". But Bill still expects Ford to respond to him in some way, and it's very clear that Bill is shocked when Ford REFUSES to talk to him. And what's interesting is Bill doesn't just IMMEDIATELY begin with threats; he actually leaves stickynotes first, before Bill realizes he's FUCKED UP big time and gets really nasty. There's something pleading with the CAN WE TALK? sticky note. There's a point where Bill does realize he's not getting what he expected, that he's missing Ford, and that he's willing to possibly even smooth some things over, explain things better (maybe even the part that the nightmare dimension is unraveling perhaps) or persuade Ford into Bill's plans. But Ford refuses, and it's already too late for Bill because just like with Stan, Ford feels betrayed and when Ford feels betrayed he'll mercilessly cut the person out of his life. Ford deeply, deeply holds hurt and betrayal and as a result he has zero desire to speak with Bill again (and also uhhh big red flag to take over the world, so also. Yeah).

And it's interesting because it's a slower ramp up until Bill is desperate and threatens, uses violence, because that's what he's always used when it comes down to it, and an ultimatum is given. It wasn't just threats out of the gate; Bill DID try to speak to Ford (btw this is not me being like Ford should have spoken to Bill and it would be magically healthy, cause no matter how you slice it it's just a toxic mess tbh). Threats out of the gate would have been faster; there's over three weeks in the timeline, before Ford goes through the portal (althought we don't get too much context around exactly when everything occurs). That's a lot of time! But Bill didn't threaten Ford immediately. And I think part of that reason is because Bill expected Ford to speak to him, expected their relationship or at least their project to mean enough to Ford that Ford would speak to him and then continue their work, once his anger cooled off. And I think also part of it is because Bill cared about Ford, not that he'd admit it in the moment; but he'd rather Ford willingly be alongside him, then have to force him through threats to do the work on the portal. You see that, even after Ford spends 30 years trying to kill him and nearly even does, when he offers him during wierdmageddon to be a henchmaniac. Bill cares about Ford, wants Ford beside him. But then Ford continues to refuse to engage with him at all, and Bill realizes he's lost Ford, and progressively gets more desperate and angrier as he's still refused, and falls into the violence he usually uses, to get Ford to cooperate.

Anyhow it's one of those things that you wonder what would've happened if they DID speak, but that would ultimately be defying a big part of who Ford is... So in a way it's a juicy juicy tidbit to chew on, the implications beyond the writing on the sticky note.

[acmeangel]

I’ll say it with my full chest: Bertholdt is equally as complex—if not more—as any other character in AoT and people only see him as ‘boring’ or ‘just there’ because he is quiet.

In a show full of natural born leaders, those who act without hesitation, who speak their minds loudly and impassioned, it’s easy for a quiet character to be seen as unimportant. But this couldn’t be further from the truth.

Bertholdt’s quiet demeanor is not to be mistaken with simplicity—to me, he is a textbook overthinker, riddled with conflicting thoughts, growing fears, and guilt that remains firmly planted in his mind, taking root there and growing out of control.

As someone who is quiet and meek by nature, it’s not surprising that Bertholdt grows into this nervous, indecisive person—he’s been a warrior since he was a child, an immense weight placed on his shoulders, the burden of being someone able to cause mass destruction with ease.

He’s been used as a weapon, constantly told what to do by others; he can master any skill better than most others, but lacks the power to do anything with those skills until he’s told.

He knows that if he is obedient, if he does what he is told is right, that he will be able to save his sick father, become an honorary Marleyan, and have some semblance of peace and safety. To him, at this point, he can be someone who defeats evil if he stays on the right path.

But, this becomes less simple as Bertholdt becomes wracked with guilt as he grows more and more aware of the truths of the world and the war he’s been forced to fight in; one that is not against evil, but driven by fear and hate.

We see it from one of his first ever interactions—when he uses the hanged man’s story as his own cover story when he speaks to Eren and Armin for the first time. Sure, he was trying to blend in, but he could’ve just as easily made something up.

That story had actually been weighing heavily on him, when he reveals that he’d been having recurring nightmares about it and asks Reiner in private why that man would bother telling that story just to later hang himself.

The thought is brushed aside rather quickly, but this gives us a look into Bertholdt’s mind and personality; someone battling inner turmoil, someone who contemplates what it means to have agency over life and death, someone who grapples with guilt.

He likely believed that the man wanted to be judged for his actions, to feel the weight of his guilt, before taking his own life; just as Bertholdt already felt the guilt of his actions in destroying Shiganshina and subconsciously was likely seeking out judgment and consequence. His sleeping position even matches The Hanged Man tarot card.

Later, we see Bertholdt’s guilt, emotions, and inactions reach a boiling point that compromises the warriors’ mission. He lets Armin use his feelings toward Annie as leverage to distract him, and he has a breakdown as he confesses to his friends in the Scouts that he hates what he’s done, that he genuinely does consider them friends, and that he wants to pay for what he’s done.

He knows that it was because of him that Eren ended up getting away, that he’d be the reason that Reiner and Annie would continue being in danger in Paradis, their mission now prolonged—his guilt only continues to build.

Moments before the return to Shiganshina, Zeke and Reiner had both told him that he needs to begin acting on his own, Reiner even going so far as to call him unreliable.

As someone who relies on the people he cares about and seeks direction from them, hearing that his own friends and comrades actually doubt his abilities and reliability would shake him to his core.

This interaction surely made him steel himself, made him push down his emotions, made him act. It made him put on a mask of apathy toward the Scouts, his friends, and nihilism toward the world around him, and play a role.

(Not to mention, Bertholdt has now seen Reiner—this person who was seen as weak, who was never even meant to be a warrior in the first place—grow into an actionable leader, and I can only imagine that would make his own self-doubts grow.)

I think when he transformed into the Colossal, part of him also genuinely did want it all to end, there, no matter the consequences. Reiner was too injured at that point to be the leader; it was his one, final chance to prove himself, to show that he is capable of doing something.

And I believe, too, that he was a terrified kid who just wanted the fighting to end—knowing that if it didn’t happen there, it would happen eventually, after more and more death and destruction.

He knows these people, his so-called enemies aren’t devils, aren’t evil, and don’t deserve death simply for being born on the opposite side of a war, but they have to die to prevent further bloodshed and catastrophe.

He knows the world is a cruel place, and there’s no changing it. He’s one of the first people to acknowledge that both sides are just doing what they think is the right thing, and if that’s the case, then the “right thing” ceases to exist. There are no devils; there are simply two sides and the hatred that fuels them.

There was no other way out this time—he couldn’t crumble under the weight of his guilt and risk compromising their mission again, for the sake of Reiner, for the sake of Annie, for the sake of his father, for the sake of everyone. He’d already done that before, and he couldn’t do it again—his true nature, to him, was nothing but a weakness.

He’d been fighting for his whole life, had seen and done unimaginable things that tormented him, had learned truths about the world that shattered what he’d been taught since childhood, and he knew that one way or another, things were going to play out in a horrific, gruesome way.

And at that moment, he accepted it because he had no other choice.

You could see his behavior in his last moments as true apathy—but I don’t. I see it as a terrified, exhausted, guilt-riddled kid living in a painfully cruel world, wanting to make it all stop and knowing that a peaceful outcome was never going to happen, that the cycles of hatred never cease.

I see it as him putting on a metaphorical armor to push past his own fears, guilts, and powerlessness.

And in his death, you see him return to his true self, his true nature—a timid, scared, lost and lonely boy, reaching out for the help of his friends…

[utilitycaster]

another thing that article about C3 coupled with like, general considering the concept of fandom made me think about is parasociality because the thing is, parasociality has become a word that brings the conversation about actual play to a halt and it really shouldn't be because a parasocial relationship is inevitable. I'd even argue that it's something many AP shows (absolutely not just Critical Role) are banking on. TAZ's audience initially came from My Brother My Brother and Me, an ostensible advice show with a strong "hang out with us" element. D20's cast were CollegeHumor alums, many of whom had recognition and their own parasocial fandom through that; and that's not even getting into the fact that the go-to bonus content for actual play is a talkback or interview show that allows you to get insight into the player as a person, not just as a vessel for their character.

The issues, I think, are when the parasociality goes beyond "oh hey, it's a guy who makes characters I like" and it bleeds into the following:

Overfamiliarity. My personal bar for overfamiliarity is set quite low, much like my personal bar for spoilers, and this is related. Suffice it to say, this is when you do share that the relationship you have with this person in your head is way more serious than the one they have with you in theirs, if you have one at all. This is how you get people asking Liam O'Brien whether he has PTSD in front of a large crowd of people.

Conspiratorial thinking. Look to C2 shipping wars. Cataloguing someone's every blink and imagining it's indicative of a romantic intention; getting super weird about table placement. It can also overlap with overfamiliarity, in assuming all character choices or preferences are undeniably autobiographical (think people forcing YA authors to out themselves).

Acting like Annie Wilkes in Misery. Directly attacking creators based on their creative choices and demanding something else from them. Note: this is direct attacks; it is not criticism. See below.

The flip side: White Knighting: "It's THEIR SHOW and you CAN'T CRITICIZE IT" and statements of that ilk. Not always parasocial; sometimes this is motivated entirely by personal self-centeredness ("how dare you not like the things I like", though to be fair that's an unhealthily parasocial response as well, just towards other fans or strangers on the internet rather than a performer)

It's really that parasociality on its own is relatively harmless; the second it crosses into entitlement, either towards the creators themselves or towards the fandom, you have a problem.